fivos snarled my daugther

Posted: Sat Jan 23, 2010 9:01 am

I got very worried when yesterday fivos snarled at Io(my daugther),it's the first time it happens to me,a dog that snars at one of the family members Sad

.Kostas was on the bed with fivos,something they do often,when kostas goes to wear his pyjamas,fivos goes with him and they play a bit on the bed,well,yesterday Io went as well and fivos didn't like the intrusion on his "loving moments with kostas" and snarled at her.Later i learned that it was not the first time he had done it,Io told me that last week he also did it to her while they were playing with a ball.
Does anyone have an idea how to deal with it?he's so sweet and tender,i just can't belive he did it Crying or Very sad

Posted: Sat Jan 23, 2010 4:52 pm

It sounds like he is trying to assert his authority and the best thing to do is to stop the fun and put him out by himself (consequence of action training) make it for 10 min then let him back. Every time he does this extend the time.

How old is he?

Posted: Sat Jan 23, 2010 5:27 pm

He's now 19 months old.Last nigth my husband slaped him and left him in the bedroom by himself for 15 minutes or so,but,this morning(,after i wrote),he did it again while playing with Io.
I'll try to do as you say Nicola,it sounds good.
Next time i will get a female Smile

no dominating male problems Smile

Posted: Sun Jan 24, 2010 4:50 pm

He is in adolesence and it is important to disapline without violence. Also when you come down in the morning or turn after a time apart you must ignor him no eye contact or voice until he goes and lyes down. Then you call him to you, this demonstrates to him that you are the boss. The children must also do this.

When dog run to greet you when you have be a part they are not greeting you but getting you to recognise them as the boss, so it is important not to demand your attention.

Posted: Sun Jan 24, 2010 5:15 pm

I think Fivos's thinks he is second down in line to the pack. Your husband is in charge. Then him, then you then your daughter. He must be taught that his is at the bottom of the pack. No good using violence. He must be ignored. It's his age and he must not be allowed to get away with anything at this stage.

It must be difficult for Fivos he has no other dog companion to teach him the ropes on how to behave.

Daisy really is trying to get up the line in the pack. But Cedric (12 years old) is still in charge. Floosie plays with her but lets her have her way at the moment. Poor Spud he is just a push over. But Cedric is in decline. I think Spud will take over from Cedric.
You must not Fivos be leader in your family he is way down at the bottom of the line.

Posted: Sun Jan 24, 2010 5:35 pm

Thanks alot for your advises,i have a question,when you say that i should let him wait laying down to greet me,shall i tell him to lay and wait?he never learned that, so i think he will not lay if i don't tell him to.
With me he waits for me to get in the house,put my things down and then he cames,also he never jumps on the bed or sofa without my agreement.I always found it funny that his beahvior is different with me.

Posted: Mon Jan 25, 2010 9:01 am

Yesterday i hadn't see your comment Gina,i think he has me has his boss,mostly because he doesn't spend time with my husband,but he has a very strong voice and slaps fivos once in a while,i'm sure he respects him a lot but it's with me that he spends most of his time,also i'm the one trainning,feeding,brushing etc etc.Last nigth was the first time he snared at Io in front of me,i did has Nicola sayed,took him out and left him there for 15 minutes.
And we have another dog lisa who's 10 years old,he's always bodering her but lisa still has the upper hand and beats him very hard when he over does it.So,i think he feels that Io is the last on the pack and he takes it out on her.
I'm affraid also that because fivos is so cute and small(we were used to leonidas who was 45 kg)he always got away with things he shouldn't Embarassed

for example with Kostas he jumps on the bed whenever kostas goes in the bedroom,and expects cuddling,also on the sofa.Until a few months ago kostas was letting him play mating with him,you know when the dogs make those movements like they are mating,something that i never allowed him to do with me.i don't know how or if those things have any kind of influence in his behavior now

Posted: Tue Jan 26, 2010 8:27 am

I'm scared Exclamation

yesterday i asked an opinion from a trainer(by email)and she urged me to find professional help asap,that i should keep fivos separated from Io,that most surely he will finish by biting her.
Last nigth he snarted at her again,again i put him out byhimself,he seemed very sad after,but i don't know if it works,as far he keps doing it anytime she gets close while he's playing or just being peted.
I'm getting desesperated,i don't know what to do.Am i over reacting?do you feel that there's any real danger?

Posted: Tue Jan 26, 2010 8:49 am

Sorry did not reply yesterday. Been very busy.

You must keep Fivos separated from your daughter. Only have them together when you or your husband are present. I think your daughter is sending vibes to Fivos of fear and who can blame her.

Your husband must also stop the playing as this is over exciting Fivos too much! You have an adolescent male dog and he wants to prove himself.
I stopped Peter doing hard play with my Old English years ago as it made them quite aggresive. When a dog is over excited there really is no control. I would also use a very sharp loud voice or bang a newspaper on something hard to attract the dogs attention. Don't hit Fivos though.

His behaviour must be corrected now.

Have you had Fivos neutered? This might not help as he is now 19 months old but I think this is a course you should take.

Posted: Tue Jan 26, 2010 9:35 am

Good morning gina,that's early for you,here is 2 hours later than England.
Thanks for your reply.Do you belive it may help if i have fivos neutered?i thougth about it but belived that it was too late to make a diference.
I thougth also if i make Io more envolved in fivos care,like feeding him,walking him on a leach etc may help their relationship.And it's true,she's getting affraid of him and surely he can feel it and take advantage.
I can't belive this is happening Sad

Leon was so different,he was already 2 years old when Io was born,he didn't like it but was never agressive with her.or Lisa,who was a stray dog with a very hard past,she never showed any kind of agressiveness to Io,all due she doesn't like children and may be agressive with them.
I hope it will eventually pass.
Thanks again

Posted: Tue Jan 26, 2010 1:41 pm

Hi

See if you can get a book by Jan Fennel the dog whisper in your country well worth reading or have a look at Ceaser Millan website and review the part that shows you how to be the pack leader.

The Pack Leader is strong and silent. don't tell him to sit just ignor him and as hard as it will be have in your mind (only) that he is un-important this will help you to project being superior. this is very hard to put into words.

Posted: Tue Jan 26, 2010 7:13 pm

Hi again,things are quiet as far but fivos is acting a bit strange this last days,he's not his usual happy self,he's more quiet and doesn't leave my feet.Kostas also noticed his quiet behavior.I'll get in ceaser site.

Posted: Wed Jan 27, 2010 4:41 pm

Hi Ani, I have been away for a few days so have only just picked this up. I understand that this is distressing for you. From your last message tt sounds as if Fivos has sensed things are not right and he's a bit insecure. Hence, he wants to be closer to you for reassurance. This is OK as you want his behaviour to change and this may well be the opportunity you need. My advice would be to simplify things for Fivos. He wants to know his place in the order of your house. At the moment he doesn't know and is confused. Everyone should talk to him and praise him when they see him doing what you want. He needs to know that you are happy with him. Serras are always desperate to do what their owner wants.
For me this would mean, as others have mentioned, that as a general rule, Fivos:
- lives on the floor, is not allowed on the bed or furniture
- plays with toys, does not engage in any physically interactive play with people especially jumping on to anyone as if to mate.
- is disciplined using positive assertive methods, hitting or agressive responses should never be used - they will only make him defensive and potentially aggressive.

You are right to want to involve Io more in looking after Fivos i.e feeding him and joining in walks. But until he has settled down again and until they know one another better, she should do this with you. Think carefully about what triggered Fivos reaction and work from there. There may be things she shouldn't do as well as Fivos.
Fivos is maturing as a male and although having him neutered will not change his overall character he won't be driven by his hormones. Wink

Good Luck

Posted: Wed Jan 27, 2010 6:51 pm

Nice to hear from you Pauline,i guessed you were way Smile

Things are calmer,or may be i'm calmer Smile

i was so chocked and surprised wuth fivos behavior,that i got scared.Today Io came with us for a walk,fivos looked very glad to have the all family together(kostas also came),i told Io to avoid all the situations that may trigger his snar,like blowing his nose(he hates it and gets very erritated),to try to take his toys away from him and to not get involved when kostas and fivos are having their time together,2 of the times were when kostas was cuddling fivos,probably he didn't want to share it with Io.
Something i'm trying to figure out is how does he sees Kostas,he seems to adore him and he's a bit ware of him(,kostas has a very strong voice that's intimidating).
Anyway,i'm reading whatever i can find,i'm trying to understand fivos in order to deal with it.This last days he's asking to get on the bed very often,and he's not allowed(i love to have him on the bed with me,he's so warm and soft Sad

)
now to neutered him is something i can't do rigth way,no $ .Of course if it's really necessary i'll find a way,but lets see first,i want to belive that i can deal with him,or as a friend said,i have to deal with the rest of the family first.
Thanks again for all the support,i know i'm quite boderesome.

Posted: Wed Jan 27, 2010 7:06 pm

Hi again. The things that you mention Io doing would upset any dog and I guess he's giving her a gentle warning Confused

Fivos has few words with which to express himself. Smile

He will respect Io if she respects him. It sounds as if one of the benefits of owning a dog will be true here. Owning and caring for a dog can help a child to understand that all living things have feelings. Laughing

Fivos must have beem ecstatic with all his flock together for a walk. Laughing

Serra bliss Wink

Perhaps when things are again calm Fivos can be invited to come on the bed or sofa AND to get off when told. Finn is the only dog that joins us from time to time on the sofa or the bed and by invite ONLY. It's a good training exercise. Have courage - it will come right. He's being a teenager Laughing

Posted: Sat Jan 30, 2010 9:15 am

Good morning from a sunny serifos.It's a beautiful day.
Things seem much better this last days,i can feel and see a difference in fivos,it's subtil but it's there.By himself he stoped jumping on the sofa each time kostas gets home,kostas was surprised and i may say a bit sad(he loved fivos welcomes on the sofa).Yesterday he went to Io's room and while Io went for a bath he just waited for her there,it was so funny Laughing

i went to check on him several times and there he was,siting and waiting(first time he ever did it)when Io arrived i coul hear them playing.At nigth,fivos was with kostas and Io just caressed him,i was holding my breath in expectation,but he did nothing Smile

.
This morning i asked Io to bring fivos to the office by foot,it's not an easy task because she has to pass the village and fivos hates it,but they just arrived and everything went more or less ok,she was complaining that it's the last time she brings him,that he just gets too affraid on the village.
All in all,things are much better,he's a clever dog and somehow i think i managed to pass the message,he seemes to have understood that snarling at Io is not an accepted behavior.I think i became a bit more strict with him but if it helps ...

Posted: Sat Jan 30, 2010 7:11 pm

I am so pleased that things seem better. Sounds as if you are being more firm and clear. Fivos needs you to be the leader. He doesn't want to be the leader. He will be even more relaxed when he understand this - he doesn't need to worry - it's your job. Very Happy

Posted: Fri Feb 05, 2010 6:43 pm

Hope things are still going okay Question

Posted: Sat Feb 06, 2010 8:49 am

Good morning,things are better,i still don't allow him on the bed,he begs lots of times but i just ignore him.It breaks my heart Sad

he's so nice to have in bed this days,he's warm and cozy,but...i guess it helps that i keep him out of bed and sofa.In general i'm a bit more strict with him.With Io he's playfull and sweet but i can feel that it may happen again if the circunstances lead there.Also she needs to learn how to deal with him.Also he's always next to me,while i'm doing house works he's permanently moving,while i think he's sleeping in the kitchen i find him on the bathroom laying on my feet,like a sleep walker,he may move dozens of times.He was like that,but since i started getting upset with him,putting him out and not allowing bad behavior,he seems to be always where i'm.It's like having a shadow.I really would like to know what's going on in his mind.
Thanks for your concern.

Posted: Tue Feb 09, 2010 8:20 pm

My dogs follow me like shadows too. They are so close to me that I can turn round and close a door to a room and shut them in and then wonder where they are Confused

If they could get inside my skin I am sure they would. I would like them to chill out a bit more. They know I am in the house so let me get on with my work. Very Happy

I have put a child gate on the kitchen door when I'm doing housework or they will be with me too much. They know they have to wait and the older two do but Bonita will protest from time to time. Mad

I can only encourage you to reward Fivos whenever he does what you want - if he wags his tail he's understood Smile

If you have to reprimand him, don't make a big thing of it, move on. Serras are very aware of the atmosphere between themselves and their owners. They want to be in your good books. Laughing

Give him lots of praise for being off the bed and on the floor and he'll do as you want. Nespa has just come alongside me and pushed her nose under my arm - she's here and she knows I will stroke her Smile

Who's the boss in our house Wink

Posted: Wed Mar 03, 2010 10:16 am

Just to let you know that things keep being ok,as far no other problems with Io.She keeps a distance from him,and,instead of getting more involved with his care,she's doing the opposit,they are not even playing anymore Sad

.He still links her and gets very happy when she gets home from school,but he doesn't bring her the ball to play anymore.I guess my daugther will be much happier with a Maltese or something similar Sad

she likes dogs(after living with them all her life)but she doesn't care about getting out of her way to be with them Sad

but i guess i should not force her.

Posted: Wed Mar 03, 2010 10:47 pm

Children are themselves! Four ago, my brother bought two golden retriever puppies and his daughter was really enthusiastic about it. She was so excited and eager to have them. However, whilst she will feed them from time to time she hasn't particularly involved herself with them. It's my brother (and his wife) who looks after them. Smile